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Interview of Cea Harth by Jim Andris, Aug. 6. 2010

Introduction/Overview/Context

This is Jim Andris. In just a few moments you will hear an interview that I did of Cea Hearth, also known at various times as Glenda Dilley, Glenda Hakott Rae and Adrienne Rae. The date of the recording is Aug. 6, 2010. Cea was an important force in the formation of the Magnolia Committee, and had a prior history as an activist for gay and lesbian rights at Columbia, Missouri for several years before the first Walk for Charity that was held in St. Louis, Missouri on April 20, 1980. I offer my apology to Cea [see-ah] because I mispronounced her new name in the interview as Cea [say-ah]. I would also like to put the following facts on the record, because they give a time and legal context to Cea’s comments in the interview. On June 8, 1977, the U.S. Court of Appeals, Eighth Circuit decided that the First Amendment required the University of Missouri Columbia to recognize the gay and lesbian student organization known in the suit as “Gay Lib” The case number is 558F2D848. On Feb. 21, 1978, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the University of Missouri’s appeal of the Eighth Circuit Court’s decision. On Sept. 29, 1978, Gay Pride Week was held at the University of Missouri Columbia. I base that date on information found on p. 18 of the undated Issue #1 of Gay Life, which issue also contains photographs and interviews from that meeting. The accompanying CD in this two disk collection contains a concert by Cea Hearth entitled “The Evolution of Adrienne Rae,” Dec. 14, 1980. And finally, this CD contains a song about Cea Hearth written by me in 1987. Thus we have three lenses to view this historically important person: a concert by her, an interview of her and a song about her. And now the interview.

Introduction/Columbia

Andris: So I’m sitting here on my back porch, this is Jim Andris with Cea Hearth of San Francisco and um I wanted to take this opportunity to get a few of her thoughts down about some things we’ve been talking about. I just finished transcribing a concert that Cea um did in December of 1980, and uh so we’re trying to get some of these facts straight. And let me just ask you a couple of questions, Cea.

Hearth: Alright.

Andris: Or would you like to say anything before I ask you questions, but I’ve got a couple on my mind.

Hearth: No, go ahead, Jim, ask me something; that’s easier for me.

Andris: Ok, so you’ve been telling me a lot about ah how you got involved in uh the Columbia, Missouri gay students’ association. Maybe you could just say a little bit again for the microphone about how you got involved in that.

Hearth: Oh, uh, well, let’s see, I guess I had been a member of that group for two or three years and I, we were concerned about our lawsuit that was being heard by the Supreme Court at that time. The lawsuit had actually been filed several years before then, but it had slowly made its way up to the Supreme Court. And the people, this fellow, Larry Eggleston, who knows, had filed it several years before, but he was no longer really a part of the group which was meeting at the ess, Episcopal Student Union or something. And so we were not allowed to meet on campus which was the point of the lawsuit. So we were just meeting there, and I stayed on, I finished my masters degree and stayed on for a year because I was interested in, you know, helping the group see that through, and since I wasn’t teaching at that time, gay people, of course had no teaching rights, I was able to be spokesperson for the group and have my name in the paper, so we needed such a person, and I felt like, felt up to doing that, so I did.

Andris: Ok, and so you were the president of this student organization at Columbia during the time when the decision actually came …

Hearth: Came down, yeah.

Andris: from the Supreme Court that you could legally hold your student organization meeting on campus.

Hearth: Right. And that was, I’m not sure exactly when that was.

Andris: Later 70s, I’m thinkin’ this was 1979, …

Hearth: Coulda been.

Andris: so. The other thing if you wouldn’t mind repeating it once more but you told me a neat story about waiting for the police in Columbia to escort you from where you were over to the campus.

Hearth: yeah, Student Union. ‘Cause we hadda meet, we were assigned after we won the lawsuit and we were then able to meet on campus, we had been assigned a room in the Student Union, so we were going to make a little march from the Episcopal place about six blocks away to the Student Union. And since there were some detractors, some people who were not happy that we were allowed to meet on campus, we had arranged to have a police escort. Well, the police blew us off, and didn’t care, so uh we waited maybe 30 minutes, they didn’t show up. So I was in the restroom, and, you know, realizing we couldn’t stay there and cower, we had to make the walk, and as I was thinking about that and making little prayers and so forth, I got a, I suppose it would be an infusion of divine energy, and felt, you know, that we would be able to make the walk. And I took this energy with me and back to the group, and we went off, in this group there were about twenty of us, at least to start with, we did pick up some people along the way who joined us. But I was, I had my guitar and I think I must of played a song or two along the way. I felt a little better with my guitar and leading the group. And I ‘member two [laughs] of the men carried a banner that said that we won recognition, now let’s talk. So we were something, but interestingly enough, both my brother and sister, who happened to be gay, somehow ended up in that march, and how they knew about it and got there, I’m not sure. But it was kind of, had potential to be treacherous, people, frat boys were out there, throwing sticks and little rocks and so on, and hooting and so forth, but the only ones who were hit by the projectiles were press people, which, of course, put them on our side, certainly more than the people throwing the stones. So anyway we made it over there, and then pretty much no one really bothered us once we made it to the room.

Andris: Well, good. I’m gonna stop this for a minute.

Name Change/Magnolia Committee

Andris: Alright, maybe you would explain to the users ah the listeners not only the evolution of Adrienne Rae, but the evolution of your name, Cea Hearth, so that we can tie it back to that historical period where you … that we were talking about … Columbia.

Hearth: Oh, ok, well when I was in ah the gay organization in Columbia, I wasn’t able to be a activist gay person and use my given name, which I think at, yes, at that time was Glenda Dilley, that’s my original name, and ah since I wasn’t teaching, I was free to use that. However, in … in Missouri, there’s no rights for gay people, gay teachers, I mean. So when I had to go into my profession again, since I’d just gotten my masters degree in furthering preparation for that, it was hardly practical to waste it. I ah went back into the closet, and then was so aggravated by the circumstances that made that necessary, that I decided to make another gay organization in St. Louis, where I ended up teaching. And that was called “The Magnolia Committee,” and I called it that because …

Andris: So just to interrupt for a minute, we had to make a change in our location. We got chased off ah my back porch by the garbage truck … very noisy … but, uh, Cea, you were just starting to tell us about the Magnolia Committee and also your names, ‘cause … go ahead.

Hearth: So anyway, in order to have the Magnolia Committee and start that, I needed a workable name to attach to things, so I somehow chose Adrienne Rae for that, and I probably had reasons at the time, but I don’t remember now what they were, but, that was my first name change, so, anyway, should I talk about that? So that group was comprised of emissaries sent from all of the other gay groups in town, Gay Academic Union, uh, gay this,

Andris: Was MCC involved?

Hearth: Yeah, probably, I don’t really remember now who all was there, plus there were some few people from organizations other than gay things, ‘cause I wanted to uh make our first public uh foray into the y’know the over-society one that was a little less threatening than, y’know, here we are, gays and lesbians are marching, so I included in the makeup of the group people who were from other minority associations, and those were—can’t remember too well now what all they were—but the collection of funds that we had made was not only for gay and lesbian organizations to fund the uh walk—we called it a walk, not a march, for the same reason, no to be too threatening—was to y’know make ourselves more inclusive, to seem part of the outer society and concerned for the outer society as well as ourselves. And I had in my mind, “minority associations,” y’know “Ma,” that’s your ma, “M-A,” minority associations, would be a good way to, I don’t know, introduce ourselves and become normal in people’s uh understanding of us and receiving of us. Anyway, I ran out of energy, I never did continue with the minority association. I think it’s still a good idea today, I wish the gay people could maybe be seen as bonding more with the outer society, but, I don’t know, I don’t have the energy to do all of that now.

Andris: So, uh, you told me that the original Magnolia Committee met for the organizational meeting in your apartment.

Hearth: Right.

Andris: On Arsenal, is that right?

Hearth: No, on Magnolia.

Andris: On Magnolia, Duh!

Hearth: [Laughs] On Magnolia, down in the basement. I had the biggest apartment in the building, but it was down in the basement. It was good because we had plenty of room to sit there and plan everything. No one knew how to go about having the, getting a parade permit, and all of that, we had to just figure all of that out. And we drew, since organizations sent an emissary from each of the group, we had a quality group, quality people, who were willing to extend themselves in that way, and we just, I think we started in October of ’79, and we gathered funds from all of those different gay bars. We put a little jar up, and I suppose they gathered funds in some of the community organizations as well, and we just, whatever had to be done, we would figure out who could do it, and how it should be done, and someone had to go to the mayor’s office, I remember, and so we needed some people who were able to use their real names were able and willing to do that, and I don’t remember who the noble souls were now who did do that, but we had got everything we needed to have and just went forward with it. And April 20, we chose that date, partly because it was Earth Day, partly because it was—y’know, my birthday was the next day, April 21—just cause we thought we would. [Laughs.] So, yeah …

Andris: Yeah, now we’re being interrupted by my cat, so a little break to feed him and then I’ll be back with another question.

Hearth: Ok.

Andris: So, not to belabor the point too much, but in, can you say a little bit about the months growing up to that April celebration that winter and early spring, does anything stand out in your mind as memorable before the Walk for Charity?

Hearth: Um hm. Yeah. It was called y’know I think among the gay organizations we tended more to the gay and lesbian walk, but to the outer community we called it a Walk for Charity because all of the organizations who sent someone to the Magnolia Committee would receive some of the funds that we raised, not that they were very much, but we, like I said, we wanted to seem more a part of the society than some, something that was on the outside of it, uh, demanding something. Uh, I don’t know, people were nervous, of course, because, we’d never, we hadn’t been out there in any kind of public display before, and … excited to have it be going on. We met with uh the mayor, uh I think the mayor … we were worried the most about the mayor’s office and getting the parade permit. And I think the guys were kept waiting for like an hour or more before, y’know, anyone attended to, to them, and, but finally we got whatever permission that we had to get, whatever license for parading, and we had to close off a street I think.

Andris: Well, I remember that first walk, we met in Maryland Plaza, and I was actually there carrying a sign for the Gay Academic Union, because I was, had been hornswaggled into being the president, just like you were hornswaggled into being the president of the group in Columbia, because I apparently had the qualifications that they needed, which was somebody that wasn’t afraid to stand up and talk about, uh, gay rights, and also to self-identify themselves as gay, but we walked down the, from the Maryland Plaza, down Lindell, and eventually ended up at Washington University Quadrangle. And there was a big celebration there, so that, I definitely remember that part of it, although I don’t think I was quite so involved in the events leading up to that as you were.

Concert/Songwriter

Andris: But now you’ve uh, you can say other things about that if you want to, but one of the things I want to tie into this is, I just finished, I found this old, fairly good quality recording of a concert that you gave, and I believe that the date that was on the sheet that was handed out with it, it was December of 1980, so all of these events had already transpired [Cea echoes my words here] for quite a few months, uh, and I know that you’ve mentioned several times that that concert was held in, what was it, the apartment or house of Frank Sprayberry, and that was on Arsenal, that’s what I was remembering. I remember that concert very well, I have always been impressed with that concert and with your songwriting abilities. I think you write some very fine songs, [thank you] and so I did make a digital remastering of that tape, and I’ve just produced it on CD. Obviously, another whole part of your life here, besides the fact that you were involved for many years, got involved in being a gay activist in both in closet and out of closet mode, is that you wrote songs for a long time, many songs, I think there are like twenty of them in this concert. But I wonder if you would talk a little bit, both about being a songwriter and about uh how you decided to put that concert together.

Hearth: Oh, well, let’s see, then, uh, I guess since we got the first gay pride walk out of the way, and so on, I had time to practice up on all of that music, which took a while to get it performance ready, I remember. Um. I During the Columbia years, I relied on my guitar and some songs that I had written for you know gay pride and gay activism that were, you know, inspirational and rabble-rousing tunes. [Laughs.] And uh so, I don’t know, at the same time I was doing all this outward stuff, my own personal journey had a lot of, oh, I don’t know, maybe darkness would not be too, too far off the mark for my own personal journey. So I had a lot of songs that were reflective of that, and were ways of working through some of those, uh, mysteries in my own life that I was dealing with. So the songs, I don’t know, kind of helped me devise some way out of these little webs of difficulty that I found myself in, in my own little head. And as well as the gay things, there were just personal things.

Andris: Yeah, and, you know, I also. One of the things that I, I’m going to stop this for a while in just a minute and make sure that I’ve got it saved, and then I want to continue on this line of your songwriting for a minute.

Woman/Shamana

Andris: So, another thing that I want to bring up here, uh, is, I don’t know that we’re so clear on it in 2010, but maybe I’m wrong about that, but back in 1980, there was a very close connection between the women’s movement and lesbians and gay activism uh and uh I know that a lot of your songs, for example, are not about, not necessarily just about being a lesbian, but about being a woman, and freeing yourself up.

Hearth: Right.

Andris: And I think that those are very neat songs, so you’re used to dealing with both of those issues, and I don’t want to throw too many things in here at once, but I wouldn’t mind you commenting on this, because uh you also, and I’m not sure what the right word is here, I might use the word “witch” or I might use the word “pagan” or and I’m not sure what fits but there was this other interest that I know you’ve had over the years, and, for example, you have a wonderful song, is it Artemis, no, it’s Moon Chant [Moon Chant] where you actually write the song to the three goddesses, the goddess of the waxing, full, and the waning moon, and all that came out of the pagan focus, so that’s also in your music, very fascinating stuff. I love it. [I see.] Maybe you could talk about that a little bit.

Hearth: Right. Well, I guess there’s been an evolution of my spiritual uh focus as well that was a focus at the time, the feminist years. When I did the gay rights work in Columbia, there was a very big separatist, lesbian separatist feeling, and therefore, there was only like two women, I think, in this group that organized the march from the off campus onto the campus [OK.] And they were doing their own little meetings and didn’t want to associate with anything that had men in it, that was how that went down. So I appreciated it that in St. Louis, when I got here, that this separatism wasn’t, well, I’m sure it was still there, but it was weaker, uh, so that there were women who were willing to work on the gay thing, the gay walk, and to take part in it, and didn’t feel you know the separatism philosophy to that point. But there was, back to that question, uh, I think that I have called myself a witch and a pagan and now I, maybe not stages of course, think of myself as a priestess and a shamana. You know, female shaman, a priestess of the divine in general, so this would be inclusive of the you know someone the pagan, if you want to call them that, I don’t really think of them as that, I think of them as expressions of the divine from another time, and how hard is that, and that’s not necessarily to exclude you know the Christian thing or Jesus or anything. I’m willing to extend my priestess/shamanahood to any expression of the divine. You know, not necessarily, and certainly not demonic things or that or the black divine, but you know the light divine and goddess, god/goddess in all his/her guises.

Andris: Yeah, cool.